Episode 117 Summary
Dr. Lucy and Dr. Mary are registered medical practitioners in Australia - Both Dr Lucy Burns and Dr Mary Barson have general practice training and have gone on to do further training around lifestyle medicine. They are trained and accredited in focused psychological strategies. They have intensively trained via multiple courses, including clinical hypnosis, which is a fabulous tool which they both use to help people. Dr Lucy has also completed nutritional training through the Australasian Lifestyle Medicine Association and both Dr Mary and Dr Lucy have done extensive training in low carb nutrition. Dr Mary has additional training with a diploma of child health, palliative medicine, and the fabulous extra, extra bonus of having an honours degree in biochemistry, which she uses to help us to understand how our beautiful, wonderful bodies function.
Additionally, Dr Lucy and Dr Mary have REAL LIVED EXPERIENCE - They both have lived experience with the diet industry, diet culture, and history being overweight and metabolically unwell and they understand what that is like.
Dr Lucy has been dieting since she was 16 years old - She became self conscious about her size as a tall teenager. At this young age Dr Lucy was not overweight and was metabolically flexible but she felt pressured to be as small as possible. This led to a lifetime of yo-yo dieting, deprivation, obsession with food and even bingeing. Dr Lucy has tried almost every diet imaginable and the end result was that she found herself hungry, prediabetic, overweight and with fatty liver disease. The food freedom and wellness she has found through low carb real food inspires her to want to end the misery of diet culture and to guide people to instead nourish their bodies.
Dr Mary was overweight as a child - Unfortunately the messaging around her led her to feel shame about her size. She was very fit and active, and tried a number of diets and plans recommended by doctors, including calorie restriction. She always blamed herself when the weight would inevitably return. Dr Mary is genetically insulin resistant and had PCOS and amenorrhea. Due to her insulin resistance she always felt hungry but sadly felt shame for this hunger, which although we know is hormonally driven, was treated like a character flaw. After discovering Low Carb through a gym challenge with her friends she finally felt what it was like to feel free from that hunger, and her PCOS symptoms went into remission. It was life changing and she found food freedom and began the journey to self-acceptance.
At Real Life Medicine we are opposed to calorie restriction - We recommend everyone nourish their bodies with real, low carb food. Calorie restriction has been shown to lead to obsessive interest in food, which inevitably leads to yo-yo dieting. This is not due to weak willpower. This hunger is hormonally driven.
We believe that our society needs to embrace all humans - All humans are wonderful. We first need to show acceptance to ourselves. We should work to accept that we're beautiful, that we are lovable, that we are absolutely perfect the way we are. This doesn't mean that you can't want to improve your health, you can still do that. People think: “Oh, if I accept myself, then I'll just get fatter and sicker”, but in fact the opposite is true. You can still want to change, but the difference is that you're not changing to meet someone else's expectation, but instead to nourish and care for the wonderful body you live in.
It's never too late - You absolutely can turn your health around. There are some tools necessary to help with this. We have a free ebook about the physiology of health and weight loss. It will teach you about insulin resistance. It also includes food lists. We provide lists which are helpful foods for managing your insulin levels and raise your awareness about foods that are perhaps not so helpful. It is a beautiful, easy to understand explanation on the physiology of weight management.
Visit our website and you can find our free information here: www.rlmedicine.com/free
If you would like to see what it is like to work with Dr Mary and Dr Lucy, our popular 7 day no sugar challenge is coming up soon! It begins on January 30th, following two days of preparation. 7 days, for only $7. It includes a pop-up facebook group for support, a hypnosis recording to smash through those cravings, recipes, and two masterclasses with Dr Mary and Dr Lucy.
Click here for the 7 Day No Sugar Challenge
Episode 117 - Why are Doctors Overweight?
Dr Mary Barson: (0:11) Hello, my lovely listeners. I'm Dr. Mary Barson.
Dr Lucy Burns: (0:15) And I'm Dr. Lucy Burns. Welcome to this episode of Real Health and Weight Loss.
Dr Mary Barson: (0:23) Good morning lovely listeners, it’s Dr Mary here. And as ever I am joined by the effervescent Dr. Lucy. How are you my friend?
Dr Lucy Burns: (0:34) I am super well gorgeous Dr. Mary. I am. It is summertime in Melbourne and Summer always makes me happy.
Dr Mary Barson: (0:43) You are a Summer baby. It's true.
Dr Lucy Burns: (0:46) Yes, I do. I love some sunshine. I love some warmth. And I think part of it is for my physical health, swimming or bobbing as it probably really should be termed. It's not actually formal swimming, but bobbing around in the water and moving my limbs is extremely helpful for my muscles.
Dr Mary Barson: (1:04) Excellent. That's good. Helps your body feel good.
Dr Lucy Burns: (1:08) Absolutely.
Dr Mary Barson: (1:09) That sounds nice.
Dr Lucy Burns: (1:11) Indeed. So, I thought what we would chat about today, lovelies, is, some of our listeners are new. And as often is - and you know, New Year, people start listening to podcasts - and because our podcast is called Real Health and Weight Loss, people will be listening to it because that's what everyone is wanting to do in the new year. So I thought we might have a little chat about our stories, our own personal stories. Why we are different perhaps, to what we would call standard diet culture and diet industry. And why the word “diet” has different meanings to different people and how it can be incredibly helpful to have a diet that suits your body to improve your health.
Dr Mary Barson: (1:59) Yes, yes. And why perhaps you and I don't love the word “diet”, necessarily, and why in some ways we distance ourselves from diets.
Dr Lucy Burns: (2:14) Yes, absolutely. Okay, so how about I go first, you know, there will be some listeners out there who have never heard of Dr. Lucy and Dr. Mary. And so both of us are, you know, registered medical practitioners in Australia, we did general practice training. And we've gone on to do further training around lifestyle medicine. So both of us have done what is called focused psychological strategies. We’re accredited for focused psychological strategies, which really is that element of psychological medicine. And we have done that via multiple courses, including one on clinical hypnosis, which is one of our most fabulous tools. And I've done nutrition training through the Australasian lifestyle medicine Association. And also we have done extensive training in low carb nutrition. You also Mary have some extra training with a diploma of child health, palliative medicine, and the fabulous extra, extra bonus of having an honours degree in biochemistry.
Dr Mary Barson: (3:23) That's right, chuck that one in there too.
Dr Lucy Burns: (3:25) Yeah, absolutely. So you know not to blow our own trumpet - although there is nothing wrong with that - we do feel that we are particularly well credentialed in this area. But all of that actually means diddly squat if you don't have lived experience. So both of us have lived experience with both the diet industry being overweight and being metabolically unwell. So I thought I'd just tell my little story and my entrance, my grand debut into the dieting world began when I was 16. So at the ripe old age of 16, I was 173 centimetres tall, I was tall. For my age, I was one of those kids that was tall at the age of 12. And so I always felt big, and I had big feet. I was tall, I was taller than all the boys. And I just remember feeling awkward. And so I was always wanting to kind of somehow shrink and I remember being particularly envious of the small girls, little girls. And I guess that's just part of, you know, again I was born as a child of the 70s that women were meant to be petite and certainly not big. And so, at the ripe old age of 16, I weighed 64 kilos, 10 stone, which was way more than the little girls who were all weighing eight stone. So again, I felt like a Heffalump but I now look back and realise I had a BMI of 21. 21! But yet I've felt fat and enormous.
(5:02) So I started with the Scarsdale diet, which is a ridiculous diet. They're all ridiculous diets. I then sort of moved on to the something called the Israeli Army diet, which is, if you've ever heard of that it is the most ludicrous diet of all time, it's two days of apples, two days of cheese, two days of boiled chicken, two days of eggs, two days of something else. Just a crazy diet and it was all to do with the idea of somehow shrinking my body. So the thing that happens with all diets is that they end up actually being calorie restriction in various forms. So apart from those sort of crazy fad diets, I then of course, moved on to Weight Watchers, where there were points and counting, I practically memorised that calorie counting book. So I could tell you the calories that were in an apple and a Mars bar, and, you know, I had various depending on which diet I was following. I thought that 1200 calories a day was a reasonable amount to eat. In order to lose weight. What I didn't realise was that I was literally starving myself to do that.
(6:21) I was metabolically flexible at the age of 16. I didn't have insulin resistance. I had nothing other than this desire to be smaller. And so this, basically, I just embarked on a career of yo-yo dieting and getting into scarcity mindset, because I was hungry. I was literally hungry. I remember waking up dreaming of food. I became obsessed with food. And I remember having this conversation with my mum, one day about, all I wanted to eat was this sausage. She used to make these sausages that were topped with cheese that we'd have in bread. And I just could not stop thinking about them. It wasn't until I was in my low carb nutrition training, and I heard about the Minnesota semi starvation study, which is really a study that was done right back in the 50s -so we've known about this for a long, long time - and I'll be brief, because some of you will have heard about it. But it was basically a study where they looked at men who were normal weight, and they wanted them to lose 25% of their body weight. So they put them on a calorie restricted diet. They started off for three months on a calorie normal diet for them, which was 3000 a day. And you know, here's me going, “God, that seems like an enormous amount of calories!” But these blokes were happy, healthy, weight neutral, they did some exercise. And then they halved their calories to 1500. And over the next six months, their whole demeanour changed. They became tired, withdrawn and all of their conversation centred around food. And then they were hungry. And then they became obsessed. And these are normal men. And we're thinking of normal men in the 50s. Traditional blokes in the 50s weren't reading recipe books. These guys were reading, hoarding, planning. Planning their meal for when the experiment finished. Planning, like looking, drooling, couldn't wait! And I was just, that was like a light bulb for me. I thought “Oh my god, that's been my whole life”.
(8:35) So my whole life then became this bender, or perfect restriction. And yeah, 10 kilos off. 15 on. Oh, my God, I'm fat. I'm big. I'm enormous, quick, lose some more weight, go back on a diet, all the time. In fact, the line used to be “Are you on a diet this week Lucy?” This would be my friends, when they're working out whether they're going to offer me food, because if I was on a diet, I tell you, I was freaking perfect. I was on a diet. I was absolutely willpower. But if I wasn't on a diet, I was eating everything in sight. Everything. And so yes, probably, you know, would qualify as binge eating and then found myself in my 40s the heaviest I'd ever been, heavier than when I had my children, insulin resistant, fatty liver, pre diabetic and thinking how the hell did this happen? So that's my foray into low carb living. And, Dr. Mary, I'd love to hear your story. And I'd love for you to share that.
Dr Mary Barson: (9:39) Yes. First, I'd like to confirm the fact that Lucy is indeed very tall. Sometimes when we get headshots taken together. I have to stand on a stool. Yes. She's gorgeous. She's beautiful. And she's fabulously tall.
Dr Lucy Burns: (9:56) Which I now embrace, but I didn't when I was fourteen.
Dr Mary Barson: (10:00) Yes, yep, it's beautiful. Yep. Yep. Your beautiful tall self. I love it. Me. All right. So yes, I'm Dr. Mary. Hi. Lucy has already introduced me a lot. So I'll go straight into my story. I can distinctly remember being at my grandma's house when I was nine years old, crying myself to sleep, because I felt fat. There's nothing about my grandma in particular, that's just where I happened to be. And I felt that because I was chubby, I was unacceptable. I had completely internalised this message and I was chubby. I was a bit chubby back when, you know, kids weren't all that chubby I was. I've been insulin resistant my whole life, including in my childhood. And I felt that I was unacceptable. And that was the messaging that I got as well, even from people who really loved me and really wanted the best for me. It was also “Well, maybe you shouldn't eat that”, or, “You do love your food, Mary”, and from my friends everywhere, and if I got messages that counteracted that I, I must say, I don't remember them. My brain being a human brain was you know, like Velcro for the negative and Teflon for the positive. So I really internalised this idea that because I was chubby, I wasn't okay.
(11:30) There was a time in my adolescence when I was thin again, but then in my adult years, early adult years I got overweight. I have polycystic ovarian syndrome and just naturally have quite severe insulin resistance. Genetically, both my parents have type two diabetes. I am just one of those sitting ducks for type two diabetes and for all the metabolic disease and I had metabolic disease in my 20s. I was bordering between overweight and obese. I kind of bounced around the BMI between overweight and obese. I had fatty liver. I had significant symptoms of polycystic ovarian syndrome, including hirsutism, so I was hairy, I had acne, all these horrible things which are not great for your self esteem, and heartbreakingly, I also had amenorrhea and significant fertility issues. So it wasn't nice. However, I was also really fit. I love swimming, and I swam semi competitively in local small competitions. I swam in swim squads. I went to the gym a lot. I rode my bike to uni. I was strong, I was fit and I was obese.
(12:46) And I saw dieticians, I saw doctors, I did what I was told. And I was completely wrapped up in the diet industry. I did calorie counting. And when I could afford it, I would do meal delivery services. I did everything. I did what I was told, and I could lose weight for a short period of time. But I would always put it back on again. And I internalised the message that this was my fault. So I was given the advice. And I've kept a lot of the pamphlets and booklets and I've still got them. I was given the advice to, you know, eat 800 calories a day and, you know, walk five K's a day. And I would do it but it wouldn't work. And rather than think, which might be the logical thing. “Well, this advice is stupid. It's not working”. I was like, “Well, this advice is not working. I am at fault. Like there's nothing wrong. I just can't do it. I'm wrong. There's something wrong with me”. So I was really traumatised by the diet industry. And I was traumatised by living in this heavier body. And I was traumatised by the fact that I couldn't have kids and I was unwell and that I couldn't control it. And it was all pretty unpleasant. There were great things in my life as well. But this was one aspect of my life that I couldn't control. I could soar academically, I could get all the academic awards. I could have great friendships, I could be a wonderful human. But I was terrible and unacceptable because I couldn't control this. And that's just how I felt.
(14:13) And then one day I stumbled across low carb at a local gym. And I just did it because my colleagues were doing it. I had no idea but they're like, “Come on, do this challenge Mary”, and I was like, “Okay”, thought it was going to be an exercise challenge. Turned out it was a low carb challenge. And so I just by this time, the peer pressure had mounted to a point where I just couldn't back out so I did a low carb 30 Day Challenge with my lovely nursing colleagues. And it was life changing from a health, from a physical point of view. It was life changing. I lost weight without being hungry. My fatty liver went away and my polycystic ovarian syndrome symptoms went into remission. And I just wasn't hungry. You describe being hungry all the time, Lucy, I was hungry all the time. In medical school I lived in a hostel with all these lovely medical students and I was the most overweight person there. And I’d just look at what these people that I was living with, my age, were eating, and I couldn't fathom it, you know. But also, I was always hungry, hungrier than all of them and I always had to control my hunger and I now know that was my insulin resistance,
Dr Lucy Burns: (15:19) But you know what Mares? It's like hunger is a character flaw.
Dr Mary Barson: (15:23) Yes.
Dr Lucy Burns: (15:24) You know, people go oh, wow, you're so hungry. Why so hungry? It's like, I don't know. Hunger is a physiological process. It's not a character trait.
Dr Mary Barson: (15:34) Right, it’s a hormonally and neurologically controlled process. It’s right. It was a character flaw, just like my PCOS was a character flaw. Absolutely. I don't know. There you go. I don’t think I ever had that articulated to me before, Lucy. Thank you very much. I was also unacceptable because I was hungry all the time.
Dr Lucy Burns: (15:52)
Yes, how very dare you!
Dr Mary Barson: (15:55) I know! I was a terrible human. So, yeah, I lost weight without hunger. It was all really extraordinary. Physically, I had this amazing transformation. So I was completely hooked on low carb. I was like, Well, this is the biz. This is what it's all about. And I dived into it. And I learned about all the reasons why it worked, but I still struggled. Because I had to use one of my favourite analogies, got inside my all terrain four wheel drive vehicle and had learned how to eat food, learned how to do low carb, real food. But my brain, my brain was not yet on board. I still had the trauma, I still was stuck in diet world, I still had problems with sugar addiction, I still had lots of issues, and in particular, still really hated my physical being. I really did. I didn't even occur to me that there was another way to be. If I wasn't physically perfect, then my body wasn't worthy of love. And slowly over time, mostly the catalyst was having a daughter. I had this child, this beautiful, beautiful, baby girl. And she was perfect. And it just occurred to me how horribly I viewed myself and how I talked to myself. And I was like, I think I would punch anybody in the face who said anything even remotely like this about my own daughter. And so I started to question the stories in my head, and then came to the realisation you know what? I'm actually fine. Like, I really am fine. I've been 10 kilos, heavier, hated my body. I've been 15 kilos lighter, hated my body. Right now I'm fine. Like I have learned to love and accept my body for what it does, not how it looks. I have learned to nourish my body with real food. I've learned how to drive that all terrain four wheel drive vehicle through my food landscape and my emotional landscape. And with this, this is this lived experience that as a very well qualified doctor, with extensive background in biochemistry, diet, nutrition, and psychological medicine and medical hypnotherapy. I can really help people get to the same place of good health and self compassion, and possibly also do it with less pain, than I suffered. And beautiful Lucy, that is what you do as well.
Dr Lucy Burns: (18:30) Ah, absolutely. And again, you know, I go, there's that there's some sort of little, it was originally a tik tok, a can’t believe I’m talking about tik tok, but it was a tik tok thing that was then viral. And it was, it's a song and it's a very catchy jingle. And it's actually talking about going back to when you were younger, what you would tell yourself, and it's a complete dig at Victoria's Secret, and how the fashion and beauty industry also play into women's insecurities. And you know, make you feel like you're less than perfect, and that you're not as good as a Victoria's Secret model. And it's very clever. And often think back, you know, I would go back to my 16 year old self and go, You know what, you don't need to shrink. You're perfectly fine as you are. And, you know, if only I’d sort of accepted that instead of you know, 16, 30 years later, I finally got to that point where I thought you know what, yeah, I am alright. I'm not. Clearly I'm not model perfect. I don't have a model perfect, buddy. I'm in fact, half my body doesn't even work that well. But I accept it for what it is. Because it is what it is. I've mentioned I've got muscular dystrophy. It's a progressive condition where your muscles just fade away sadly, and it grossly impairs my function. So my ability to walk and do all the things that I used to be able to do, the things I took for granted, the things that I still hated my body for, even though it was fabulously functional? I can probably now go okay, that was such a waste of energy and time. And, you know, again, not our fault, because we've been told, we're conditioned, we’re compared.
(20:17) Why does all this happen? So that companies can sell products. And you know, Weight Watchers when I went, you had points, you could spend your points on whatever you wanted, and then they sell you processed food products that, you know, you could spend your points on.
Dr Mary Barson: (20:31) Oh it’s so wrong!
Dr Lucy Burns: (20:33) I know. I can't believe that in my 30 years of dieting, I learned nothing about nutrition, about what my body actually needed. All I learned were phrases like nothing tastes as good as skinny feels and pickers wear big knickers. And it was all about weakness and willpower and discipline and if you couldn't stick to it, then it was your fault, as you've alluded to. And look, there are plenty of people that approach low carb, real food as a diet, and they will have this idea they're going to do it for a bit and then stop. In all honesty, that's exactly how I approached it. What I didn't know was two things. One, eating some fat is so satiating, so that, you know, the 30 years of having lean meat that tasted like a piece of leather with a salad with vinaigrette and wondering why I was often still hungry afterwards. And then going, “Oh my God, all I have to do is add some butter to my steak, and maybe a bit of mayonnaise that's not, you know, low fat. And it's like a miracle!”
Dr Mary Barson: (21:46) I don't need to eat for the rest of the day. Yeah!
Dr Lucy Burns: (21:49) I know, instead, in the past, you know, I'd be eating egg white omelettes, because, you know, the yolk had too much fat in it. I had skimmed every bit of butter that you know, dry toast. Oh my god, like, seriously, the food was awful. So awful. And I ate it for 30 years.
Dr Mary Barson: (22:08) Yep. You, my beautiful friend and me as well are not alone.
Dr Lucy Burns: (22:15) No. So I think the miracle of low carb eating that happened and it and look, I would love to say this happens to every single person but it doesn't. There are people that still need to work a lot on their personal development. And you know, another one of our favourite sayings is, “Weight loss is more than a meal plan”. It really is a personal development journey. Learning, you know, the reasons why you eat. You know, yes, it might be for hunger. Physiological hunger. But it's also going to be psychological soothing, in particular, scarcity mindset that dieters, that's what I was. Oh my God, The Last Supper because tomorrow I'm going on a diet and I'm never going to eat this ever again.
Dr Mary Barson: (22:59) It's like your own personal Minnesota study that you were doing on yourself.
Dr Lucy Burns: (23:05) Time and time again, wondering then why I'm so bloody weak and you know, looking at recipe books at Pavlovas and stuff. It was just crazy. So, you know, for us, both of us, I think the first thing that happens is that you reduce your hunger. Like once you're not physiologically hungry, you can then work on why you eat. It's very hard to work on the psychological hunger when the physiological hunger is still driving it.
Dr Mary Barson: (23:35) Yes, yes, it is both. We are all about health, physical health, physiological health as well as emotional health and you need both. And they both work together in powerful synergistic ways. If you've got good physiological health, you've got that hunger under control, you've got reduced inflammation, you've got better sleep, better concentration, all of these things which allow you to then be able to analyse your relationship with food with love and kindness, which then also improves your physical health which then also improves your emotional health and the two things just can spiral up and up and up and up into a beautiful state of well being.
Dr Lucy Burns: (24:22) Absolutely. And you can do this without being perfect. You can do this without needing to fit into a size six or eight or something ridiculous. You can do it. You know what? This is how unacceptable I thought I was because I was big, was it I wore shoes that were a size and a half too small.
Dr Mary Barson: (24:45) That's it. We can't be friends anymore. Even your feet were big.
Dr Lucy Burns: (24:50) I know. I had a size 10 foot Yeah, size 10 foot and for years, I would buy size eight and a half.
Dr Mary Barson: (24:58) Wow.
Dr Lucy Burns: (24:59) And I would just squish them. Or I would stretch them, I'd be putting on all this leather stretcher. I mean, it's so it's nuts, isn't it? That because it was the number, the size mattered. And really, it's just yeah, we are all different shapes and sizes. And that's what makes humans beautiful. And we need to, our society needs to embrace all humans, as being wonderful. And the people that it can start with are actually us. We can start accepting that we're beautiful, that we are lovable, that we are absolutely perfect the way we are. By doing that self acceptance doesn't mean that you can't want to improve your health - you can still do that - because I think that's what people think, “Oh, if I accept myself, then I'll just get fatter and sicker”. No.
Dr Mary Barson: (25:59) Opposite.
Dr Lucy Burns: (26:00) Yeah. And change, you can still do that. But you're not changing to please someone else's expectation.
Dr Mary Barson: (26:10) I love this. And I love, I love myself right now, I love my body, you know, for what it does. I nourish my body. And I can see how far my mindset has shifted, because recently, we were at this beautiful Planning Day with all these other business women and, and everybody, you know, got dressed up and everybody looks so swish and, and gorgeous. And I just looked around at this room of all of these lovely, beautifully dressed up women of all shapes and sizes. And I just thought that everybody looked so beautiful. I mean, made my heart sing. I mean, also, I do spend all day at home, in my pyjamas with a baby. So possibly just seeing adults made me a bit excited. I just, it just almost made me want to cry just how beautiful people are. And yes, we're all beautiful. We're all beautiful, all different shapes and sizes.
Dr Lucy Burns: (27:01) Absolutely. And once we accept that, then we can do the thing we need to do to be that person. We have one of our members, and I don't want to give too much away because she will come on as a guest coming up, but what I see is that she is living her life. Like her health has improved. Absolutely her health has improved. Yes, she's lost a few kilos along the way, as the side effect of improved health. But what she's mainly doing is living. Living it. And that's, isn’t that what we want to do? Again, no point being healthy and staying, not doing anything, like not participating. You actually want to participate in life. It's a holistic, just wonderful experience.
Dr Mary Barson: (27:52) So right, my beautiful friend, Dr. Lucy.
Dr Lucy Burns: (27:56) Absolutely. All right. Well, hopefully this episode's been a bit inspiring. Just giving you I guess, you know, the idea that it's never too late. You absolutely can turn your health around. You know, there's some tools necessary. We have an ebook. If anyone has not downloaded our ebook yet, it is all about the physiology of health and weight loss. Really looking at the insulin resistance that we've alluded to in this episode. There's meal pl… God, not meal plans, there's a slip of the tongue! There are food lists that are helpful foods that are helpful to manage your insulin levels, foods that are perhaps not so helpful so that you've got some awareness around that. And really just a beautiful, easy to understand explanation on the physiology of weight management, which you can download at our website, which is www.rlmedicine.com/free and you will see there's a whole pile of free resources there. So go and avail yourself of those.
Dr Mary Barson: (29:03) Goodbye, beautiful listeners. And you are beautiful.
Dr Lucy Burns: (29:10) Absolutely. Wonderfully glorious. Have a gorgeous day, peeps. Bye for now. So my lovely listeners that ends this episode of Real Health and Weight Loss. I'm Dr. Lucy Burns.
Dr Mary Barson: (29:29) And I'm Dr. Mary Barson. We’re from Real Life Medicine. To contact us please visit www.rlmedicine.com
Dr Lucy Burns: (29:40) And until next time, thanks for listening. The information shared on the Real Health and Weight Loss podcast, including show notes and links provides general information only. It is not a substitute, nor is it intended to provide individualised medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor can it be construed as such. Please consult your doctor for any medical concerns.