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Episode 256:
Show Notes
This podcast episode from "The Real Health and Weight Loss Podcast" features Dr Lucy Burns interviewing Dr Mellanie Lloyd, a fellow doctor who participated in the 12 Week Mind Body Rebalance program. Dr Mell shares her personal journey with weight gain following a cancer diagnosis and treatment with hormone blockers, her experience with a low-carb lifestyle, and how this has transformed her approach as a medical practitioner.
- Dr Mell's Initial Struggle: A year after her cancer diagnosis, Dr Mell was on hormone blockers and experiencing rapid weight gain despite not significantly changing her eating habits. She had previously tried various diets like CSIRO, Weight Watchers, and Light n' Easy without lasting success. Her oncologist advised her to try a low-carb diet.
- Discovering Low-Carb and the Program: Initially sceptical, Dr Mell started by listening to the podcast, found the information sensible, and then joined a four-week program, which she found to be a "game-changer" and easy to follow, even with a family. This success led her to enrol in the 12 Week Mind Body Rebalance program.
- Impact of the 12 Week Program: Dr Mell found the 12-week program exceeded her expectations, offering more than just dietary changes. It delved into mindset, intermittent fasting (which she found manageable after adopting a low-carb diet), and tools for long-term maintenance, such as managing stress and holidays. She highlighted the importance of slowly adapting to changes and listening to how foods made her feel, which led her to willingly give up things like pasta without missing them.
- Hormones vs. Calories: Both doctors emphasised that hormones, not just calories, drive fat storage. Dr Mell's experience of gaining weight while eating the same and exercising more post-cancer treatment illustrated this. They discussed various hormones involved, including insulin, cortisol, female hormones (oestrogen, progesterone, testosterone), and thyroid hormones.
- The "Game-Changer" - Reducing Carbohydrates: Dr Mell stated that the most significant factor for her was reducing carbohydrates. This led to increased protein intake, feeling fuller, less tiredness, and a reduction in hunger. She was able to lose weight without experiencing hunger by eating plenty of fats, meat, vegetables, eggs, and cheese.
- Physiological vs. Psychological Hunger: The program helped Dr Mell become more aware of the difference between physical and emotional hunger. She learned to reflect on her eating triggers, though she acknowledges it's an ongoing process of practice, similar to learning a new language.
- "Hot Tools" and "Cold Tools": Dr Mary’s concept of "cold tools" (general stress management like meditation or journaling) and "hot tools" (in-the-moment strategies to manage emotional eating triggers) was discussed as a way to lengthen the gap between an action (trigger) and reaction (eating), allowing for more conscious choices.
- Shift in Clinical Practice: Dr Mell now incorporates a low-carb approach into her general practice. She aims to meet patients where they are, gently introducing low-carb concepts and providing simple food lists, especially for those receptive or seeking help with weight management, including patients considering medications like semaglutide. She finds it satisfying to offer lifestyle advice that yields positive results for patients.
- Telehealth Clinic and Low-Carb Doctors: Dr Mell is joining Dr Lucy's telehealth clinic, which aims to provide individualised care for metabolic health and weight management, particularly with a low-carb approach. The doctors highlighted the need for more low-carb knowledgeable doctors to support patients who are often confused by conflicting advice, especially regarding issues like cholesterol on a low-carb diet. Book you consult here: www.rlmtelehealth.com
- Role of Medications: While weight loss medications like semaglutide can be effective and have a place, they don't replace lifestyle changes. They can sometimes enable individuals to start making those changes. The doctors advocate for "skills plus or minus pills" rather than relying solely on medication, stressing the importance of a proper consultation.
Episode 256:
Transcript
Dr Mary Barson (0:04) Hello, my lovely friends. I am Dr Mary Barson.
Dr Lucy Burns (0:09) And I'm Dr Lucy Burns. We are doctors and weight management and metabolic health experts.
Both (0:12) And this is the Real Health and Weight Loss podcast!
Dr Lucy Burns (0:21) Hello, my lovely friend, Dr Lucy here this morning. How are you on a beautiful Tuesday morning, as always? I'm actually not joined by Dr Mary, so I always start off with “as always, I'm joined with my friend Dr Mary,” and I'm not. I'm actually joined by another doctor who I think you're going to love, because not only is she a doctor, but she was also one of the participants in our 12-Week Mind Body Rebalance — and a real-life woman. So, as you know, we love bringing you real-life stories that are relatable, that you know you can perhaps see yourself in, and so Mell, who is joining me today — Dr Mellanie Lloyd — is one such woman. Mell, welcome to the podcast.
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (01:01) Thanks, Dr Lucy, lovely to be here.
Dr Lucy Burns (01:04) I know — look, I'm always thrilled when people come, particularly people who are past participants, people that have been in our sphere, and want to share their story. But I'm extra thrilled about your story because, you know, we often talk about the fact that the 12-Week Mind Body Rebalance perhaps should come with a warning — you know, warning: may become a zealot. But it is a warning — you know, may now make this your career — and so we've got a lot to talk about.
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (01:32) Absolutely.
Dr Lucy Burns (01:33) Great! So I thought we'd start, you know, like we start with lots of people — with, you know, where were you at? Like, tell us a bit about what led you to perhaps joining one of our things.
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (01:50) It was back about a year ago, actually, and I was about a year post a cancer diagnosis, and I was — I won't swear — annoyed, because I was on hormone blockers and I was gaining weight at a rate of knots. Plus, I loved chocolate, and I was complaining about said weight gain, and I was trying to get on board the Health at Every Size and body positivity bandwagon, and I was all for it, and I never wanted to do another CSIRO, Weight Watchers, Lite n' Easy — yeah, you know, the yo-yo. And I was talking to a friend, actually another fellow doctor, and she said, “You should go and listen to this podcast,” and I'm like, “Okay, fine, I'll go listen to the podcast, but I'm not paying for anything because I refuse to pay for anything — I'm sick of this.” And anyway, here we are — a bit of podcast, a bit of four weeks, a bit of 12 weeks, and now Momentum, and as you say, probably coming on board to give you a hand, Dr Lucy. But yeah, I started with just listening to the podcast, and I'm like, “This is just really sensible information,” and something — I think I'd gone to my oncologist at the time as well, and she said, “You need to go low carb,” and I'd done the “I'll just eat a little bit less rice and a little bit less pasta.” It wasn't working. So that was where it started, and here we are.
Dr Lucy Burns (03:04) Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, you've just given a beautiful example of how it's not about calories, and, you know, I'm sure that after your cancer diagnosis, you didn't suddenly just change your entire eating to be, you know, a chocolate-popcorn-eating machine. You probably just ate exactly as you were, but all of a sudden, eating as you were suddenly resulted in, you know, a 10-kilo weight gain or whatever it might have been at the time. And this is the, I think, incredible thing. Like, I was talking to somebody about this the other day. So, in my pregnancies, like, I gained 30 kilos, and that 30 kilos wasn't — like, it wasn't like the day I was pregnant it started. The day I was pregnant, nothing started, because I was sick as well, so nothing happened for the first sort of 13 or 14 weeks. And I'm thinking, “Oh, this is easy.” My lovely obstetrician's going on, you know, “Make sure you don't gain too much weight,” and I'm going, “This is in the bag.” And, you know, I was doing exercise and everything, and then all of a sudden, in the last sort of five months, 30 kilos just moseyed on. And I didn't start becoming an eating machine — I was eating the same. And yeah, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't low carb, but it was what I'd always eaten. And this is why that concept — that it is — there's hormones. So there might be female hormones, there might be metabolic hormones, there might be thyroid hormones, but it's hormones that are driving our fat storage. And, you know, you've just given a beautiful example of that.
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (04:36) Oh, it was eye-opening. Like, it was eating the same things, exercising probably more, and gaining weight. Like, hang on.
Dr Lucy Burns (04:46) Yes, yes, yes. It’s like, how much more can I move? So, you found yourself feeling a bit frumpy, and the things that, you know, the normal things that we try — more exercise — it wasn’t working. Listened to the podcast, did the four weeks. Tell me, why did you move from the four weeks to the 12 weeks? What was the impetus there? What was your brain saying?
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (05:08) The four weeks felt like a game-changer. It was easy. I think just starting with the lists and going, “Well, I've got…” because I've got kids and a husband who was not super enthused about really low carb — a little bit low carb — and a lot of things had meal plans. And I have to love my husband — he would say, “Oh my God, are you doing one of those programs where I have to buy lamb backstrap?” And you’re like — it's kind of this trigger. So yeah, basically, it was working — that was the impetus. It’s going, “Well, this is working and it’s easy, so I want to keep going, and I want to do a bit more of a deep dive and do more of the extensive program that you lovely ladies offer in the 12 weeks.”
Dr Lucy Burns (05:52) And when you signed up, was the 12-week what you expected? Or, you know, how did you find it?
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (05:58) It was more than I expected. I think it was a lot more, and I still continue working on the mindset. So, the dietary changes were easy and adaptable for a family, but to keep on the long term — like, you can do anything for a few weeks — but it's that going through Christmases and camping trips and holidays, and even just Saturday night, or even something really stressful has happened, and using those… I think I was thinking to myself today, I need to really now focus on my HOT tools. So that’s kind of my focus now because I do all of the mindfulness and exercise and that. So, the 12-week gave me, yeah, a lot more information about mindset, but also about intermittent fasting, which I’d tried before doing low carb and thought that was the worst thing in the world — but after low carb, it was like, “Oh, this is quite doable.”
Dr Lucy Burns (06:55) Yes, and I think a lot of people kind of bugger up intermittent fasting. They, you know, we have a thing called The Fast and the Furious — so they fast too much, they become furious, and it's like, oh, it's not good. So there is definitely slow and steady in the fasting lane — makes for successful processes. So it's interesting, isn't it? Because this was the thing that I, you know, I thought as a doctor, yeah, I knew stuff. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what I learned, but it wasn't what I actually now know,
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (07:30). You feel like the further along you go, Dr Lucy, the more you feel like you don't know — the longer you're in medicine.
Dr Lucy Burns (07:37) Yeah, well, and look, it is interesting. You know, I think when I — certainly when I went through medical school — insulin resistance was new. You know, there wasn't a lot of it around. It was, you know, I did my medical training in the ’80s. The ’80s was, what, you know, the start of the obesity epidemic. We called it Syndrome X, which is sort of whatever anything's ever called when you don't quite know what's going on. And, you know, it was like, wow, you know, what is this? This other news, this other person in hospital — now we've seen, you know, the magical Syndrome X, which now is, you know, we now know to be called metabolic syndrome — insulin resistance the driver. And it is prevalent everywhere. So, in your clinic, Mell, would you see a lot of, you know, Syndrome X? A lot?
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (08:22) Yeah.
Dr Lucy Burns (08:23) So, in the past, what sort of advice would you have given to people?
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (08:27) Well, you'd manage their blood pressure, and you maybe got them in with a diabetes educator — even if they were prediabetes — to get some dietary change, and maybe in with a dietitian, and you talk to them about exercise. And then you keep medicating them. And, as you know, Lucy, it's time as well. And yeah, that was my approach. And so you sort of try and throw everything at them, but then you just kind of then focus on upping the blood pressure meds or starting the oral hypoglycemics — amongst talking in your 15- to 30-minute consult about lifestyle as much as you could.
Dr Lucy Burns (09:05) Yeah. I think that's probably why it's interesting in general practice. Again, you know, 30 minutes is a generous time slot — most of them run on 10 to 15 minutes. And especially, you know, if it's a bulk billing clinic, in order to be able to survive, you do need high input, high throughput. So the concept of lifestyle medicine, or teaching somebody lifestyle medicine — I think a lot of doctors think it doesn't work because they go, "Oh well, you just need to go and do some more exercise," and that's their lifestyle medicine. They don't actually understand how to teach somebody how to do it or how to, necessarily — and when I say motivate people, it's not that you need to motivate them, but you need to give them a reason to be able to motivate themselves, or some tools to be able to motivate themselves. And, you know, we didn’t learn any of that. Probably if you ask most doctors, they would sort of go, "Yeah yeah, lifestyle," but it’s lip service. "Yeah yeah, change your lifestyle. Here's a handout." "Yeah yeah, lose weight. Here's a handout," which will be the Australian dietary guidelines. So it's interesting, isn’t it, because I think when I first had my, I guess, philosophy challenged — and it was interesting — it was right back when I read David Gillespie’s book on Sweet Poison, and he’d made some sort of line about, "Oh well, exercise doesn’t help weight loss." I just said, "Oh, what would you know? You’re a lawyer. You’re a lawyer. Yeah, you know nothing. Don’t be ridiculous," as I’m signing up for another aerobics class. And it’s so interesting, because now I realise that, you know, exercise is — yes — good for so many things, and strength training is certainly helpful for metabolic health and ultimately maintaining and helping with weight management. But I used to think I just needed to run further. I needed to burn more calories.
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (11:02) And I think sometimes that works at short periods because that was, you know, I did the whole Weight Watchers thing after my second child and was running and lost 10 kilos after pregnancy, and I'm like, great, that’s all I need to do.
Dr Lucy Burns (11:14) Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then what happened?
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (11:17) Yeah, then you go — you gained it again and you try it again. You go, oh, it's not working so well. What am I doing wrong? But I'm now a few years older.
Dr Lucy Burns (11:25) And so I think it's super interesting because we now know, again, you know, it’s really around that — hormones. And all of the hormones, they all interact. So yeah, we're talking, as I said, metabolic hormones — so that's for anybody who's new or just listening — that'll be our insulin levels. We've got cortisol involved in metabolic health processes, we've got glucagon, we've got the GLP-1s, which are the little incretin hormones — which, you know, now there's medications around those — a whole host of metabolic hormones: leptin. And then we've got our female hormones — so estrogen, progesterone, testosterone — and then thyroid hormones as well. And then, I guess, the adrenal pathway is part of it as well, with cortisol. So — so many hormones, got, you know, hormone receptors everywhere. And so, if we can manage lifestyle properly — not just a piece of paper, here you go — to influence those hormonal pathways in the best way possible, then that ultimately makes things a whole lot easier. So for you now, what do you think made the biggest difference then? Because, again, being on hormone blockers — that means, you know, your hormone profile is different. What do you think — that was the game-changer there?
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (12:44) The game-changer was definitely the reduction in carbohydrate in my diet, which then — I was eating more protein, I was more full, I was less tired. And I started, with the help of you and Dr Mary with the mindset stuff, I started to really pay attention to how foods made me feel. And I started to see that — hang on — if I eat this, I actually do feel a little bit... whatever — tired, bloated, uncomfortable. Doing that slowly made the difference. And I think the slowly was the key, because I remember even being on the Facebook page, and I'm like, I’m not giving up my spaghetti bolognese. You know, you said, okay, if I do that once a week… and of course, some of the people come in and they're like, try this, try that. And after a few weeks, I wanted to actually give up the pasta. So I just — and I don’t miss it. So it was just that very gentle approach, not black-and-white, rule-driven, you-have-to-do-it-this-way. As you guys say — progress, not perfection.
Dr Lucy Burns (13:47) Yeah, and it's really interesting because I think that for people who, you know — and we have a lot of people who are high achievers, whether it's high achievers academically, career-wise, whatever — we are very good at doing what we're told, following rules. By doing that, you'll get particular outcomes. You know, if you study hard, you'll do — you know — you'll get good grades or whatever it is. Doesn't work quite as well when we're trying to manage what's going on inside our body because, you know, calories in, calories out tells you if you eat less and move more, then you will lose — blah-blah — which you will initially. And that's the allure of it, and the danger is — yeah — that is initially what happens. So we go, “See?” and then we get all our counter-regulatory hormones, metabolic hormones coming back in, driving hunger — and we don't know what to do. So when you lost your weight with the 12 week Mind Body Rebalance, did you experience that hunger?
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (14:50) No. No,
Dr Lucy Burns (14:51) it's amazing, isn't it?
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (14:52) It's amazing. And I was eating, you know, lots of fat and lots of meat — a bit kind of respect — no — lots of vegetables, eggs, meat, cheese, a little bit of dairy — and not hungry.
Dr Lucy Burns (15:06) Not hungry. Yeah, so it is absolutely possible to lose weight without hunger — which I know sounds weird — but it absolutely is possible, and then for it to actually not come back either. It doesn't have to come back. One of the things we like teaching — and I don't know if this resonates with you — is the difference between physiological hunger and psychological hunger. Is that something that you knew about before doing the 12 weeks?
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (15:32) Yes, but I didn't stop myself or reflect on what was my psychological hunger. And probably the best example I can give — the other day something quite triggering for something else happened, and I literally had two cookies in my mouth before I'd even thought about it. I just went — and I kind of put myself over — that was fascinating because, like you know, you talk about your hot tools — I didn't even have time for a hot tool — like it was just so automatic. But I was able to then look back and go, “You know your faults.” So yeah, I am now much more aware of physiological and psychological hunger. It doesn't always help, but I can reflect on it. It's slow progress.
Dr Lucy Burns (16:17) Yeah, and I think what I love about you saying that, though, is that it is recognising it — like it's not something that you learn and go, "Oh, straight away, I've got that, excellent!" It is like learning a new language. So you learn the words, and you go, "Okay, that's — you know — that's how you say hello in Spanish or Swahili or whatever," and then, you know, two weeks later, you can't quite remember what it was because you're learning. So unless you practice it, you get better — and as you practice, you then become fluent. And when I think about language, like I learned Italian as an adult — I had exposure to it as a child at school, but of course I wasn't interested — then went back and did it as an adult, and at the start, you know, I'm having to kind of rehearse every sentence in my brain before I speak, and then, you know, practice it — sort of pseudo-practice it — in my head before, and then by that time the conversation's moved on, I'm still sort of, you know, wanting to ask for a glass of water or something. And then, over time, I got better at it — becoming more automatic at it, becoming more natural at it, not feeling stilted like I was practicing. And I think this is exactly what happens. So, you know, for our listeners who are wondering what Mel's talking about with hot tools and cold tools, this is a concept that, in fact, Dr Mary developed — where cold tools are the things that you might do just to maintain your basic levels of stress. So general stress management tools — so again, that might be some meditation, it might be, you know, for some people a regular journaling habit or a gratitude practice, or, you know, a general sort of relaxation process. And then the hot tools are things that you can do in the moment. And again, recognising that sometimes that's possible and sometimes it's not — and it's not possible not because you're hopeless or you can't do it, it's just practice. And so what we love teaching is this idea that there is an action, and then there's a reaction — and what we want to do is try and lengthen the gap between those two things so that you can make a decision, potentially make a decision that you're happy with. That the decision is, you know, rather than fuelled directly on just emotion, that there is potentially some ability in there to moderate it — or as we like to say, for the amygdala, the toddler brain — to kind of calm down and the parent or the rational brain to come in and make a sensible choice. Now, that takes time — like parenting. You know, you don't have a baby and suddenly you're an expert parent at all. How many years have I been a parent? A long time. And, you know, you're still — you're always learning. And it's exactly the same. Nobody ever thinks they're a perfect parent, but what we want to do is just always be able to reflect on it. Agreed. So you, now in love with the whole low carb — a low-carb-a-terian — recognising its health benefits and that food is medicine, how has that changed your practice?
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (19:23) My clinical practice — yes, like, a lot of people are coming in for semaglutide, and I think you have to be careful. The semaglutide ones are easy to have that conversation with because they're already in that headspace. But I've got to sort of stop myself from being a bit of an evangelist with anybody that walks through. So I'm learning how to read my patients, and then I'm gently introducing low carb to those who I think might need a gentle introduction. And if someone's coming in ready to go, then I'm trying to promote that first. And in the time slot of general practice, I try and give them essentially the food lists and just, you know, talk them through that — because it is actually really simple. And actually, I did have a patient the other day who I think I'd given her that advice a couple of weeks ago, and I spoke to her yesterday, and she was absolutely gobsmacked. And she's like, "It's easy!" And she's lost three kilos, and she's feeling better. Yeah, it's really — yeah, it's really satisfying, actually.
Dr Lucy Burns (20:29) So yeah, absolutely, I think you're right. I mean, I love that you do have to meet people where they're at, because at the end of the day, if we go in all guns blazing and we don't find out what the patient wants or what they're thinking, then you risk completely ostracising them — them perhaps feeling that you didn't hear what they wanted — and you potentially miss the whole opportunity for them to ever consider it, because they just associate it with, you know, "Oh God, I went in with, you know, my sore knee, and the doctor just wanted to put me on a diet." It's like, hmm. So yeah, I do love that — that you've got this really great concept of meeting the patient where they're at. So with patients, we need to meet them where we're at. So this is part of, as you know, for our lovely listeners, if you've been following along at home, we have started a telehealth clinic. And part of the reason for this is recognising that there were people out there who may have either done our programs — or perhaps not done our program — either way wanting more individualised care. So wanting more help with either their weight management, or understanding their cholesterol, or working out where they think they're going wrong — and I'm using air quotes again, you won't see it if you're listening — you know, maybe they're not achieving what they're wanting to achieve, so they're wanting some more individualised care. Which is where we've come up with the telehealth clinic. And as a metabolic health clinic, that's exactly what we answer — particularly as part of a low-carb approach. And I'm very excited because Mell is joining the clinic not just — so she was the student in Real Life Medicine — student — and now she's becoming the teacher. And I love it, because we talk a lot about this idea of having an identity shift. It's really important so that it becomes part of your identity — this not just low-carb, but actually prioritising your health. You know, that everything — the sleep, the stress management — all of that becomes part of your identity, of who you are. And that's you, Mell — you're now a low-carbetarian. You're a low-carb doctor.
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (22:46) There you go.
Dr Lucy Burns (22:47) I mean, it's great, isn't it?
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (22:50) It's great!
Dr Lucy Burns (22:51) I know. And I think that's it. We want — I mean, we want more low-carb doctors, because patients are looking. They're wanting that. They're doing low-carb. There’s a few little things they’re not quite sure — they'll go to their, you know, standard doctor who perhaps doesn't know and goes, "Ah, you've lost 20 kilos, but your cholesterol is high — oh no, you better stop that diet." And the patient then gets confused. They feel unsupported. They don't know what to do. They don't want to disappoint the doctor — of course not. So I think the more low-carb doctors we have, the better. And I'm excited that you're — you know, you've joined the throng.
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (23:24) I'm excited too.
Dr Lucy Burns (23:26) Yeah. I think it's so, you know, magical as a doctor to go from this, you know — again, not that we just dole out scripts — but that feels like that was the only tool you had, was to write a script. And now we've got more.
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (23:43) And if you like to do more, you have to refer to your allied health colleagues, which is, you know, it definitely has a place, but not everyone has that access. And then also, I do have some patients coming back frustrated that they wanted some guidance from their allied health colleagues, and they weren't getting it there either. So yeah, being able to have the time to work through with a patient right through from beginning to end is really good.
Dr Lucy Burns (24:10) Yeah, our telehealth — one of its other reasons it came about was because I was, and still am, so cross with this — just, you know, like a little... it's just basically a conveyor belt. You fill in a form, you have a minuscule consultation — not even a proper one — and then there's a, you know, a script at the end of it. And yeah, I know that there are people who that's all they want. They don't want to talk about anything else. But there is a whole heap of people who are being really cheated out of a good consultation. And certainly, weight loss medications have a place — they absolutely do. If you'd asked me five years ago, I would have said they don't. But I think part of that was that the old ones were rubbish. These ones at least are effective. But there's stuff that needs to be talked about around them. They're not a benign drug.
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (24:59) They're not the magic pill.
Dr Lucy Burns (25:03) No — which is a good book, by the way, if anyone hasn't read that book. Yes, Johan Hari, The Magic Pill, does a really good — a good, pretty balanced book on the pros and cons of semaglutide, Ozempic. And so yeah, like everything, they have their place. But it doesn't replace lifestyle. So for people, sometimes what happens is that by taking the medication, that enables them — because, you know, maybe they've got a bit more confidence, they've maybe lost a little bit of weight, they've got, you know, joint pains a bit less — they can start doing the things they need to do. But you can't just take pills. Somebody said to me the other day, "Pills are skills, not pills." Like it. And yeah, I like that a lot. I would also be thinking, you know — and again, for some people, pills are important. They're not — again, we don't want people to be ashamed of needing medications. It's not a failure. So it's probably more: pills and skills.
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (26:00) Yeah, skills plus or minus pills.
Dr Lucy Burns (26:04) Exactly.
Dr Mellanie Lloyd (26:05) But that's a bit of a mouthful.
Dr Lucy Burns (26:06) Yeah, I know. But I love that. I love that. All right, my lovelies, that's it from us this week. 12 Week Mind Body Rebalance is absolutely a doable option, or if you're looking for individual care, you can hook up particularly with Dr Mell at the telehealth clinic. She is available for metabolic health consults, and I look forward to catching up with you all next week. That's it from me — bye for now.
Dr Lucy Burns (26:37) The information shared on the Real Health and Weight Loss Podcast, including show notes and links, provides general information only. It is not a substitute, nor is it intended to provide individualised medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor can it be construed as such. Please consult your doctor for any medical concerns.
