Episode 85 Summary

  • Dr Orlena Kerek - Dr Orlena is a lifestyle medicine doctor originally from the UK who now lives in Spain. She helps people lead more healthy lives. This translates to things such as losing weight, having far more energy, being highly active and living a long and healthy life.
  • Her four pillars - Dr Orlena works with people using four pillars. The first pillar is healthy eating, which in a nutshell means eating more fruit and vegetables and less packaged foods. The second pillar is exercise. The goal of exercise is not weight loss, it is to keep you fit and give you energy and needs to be something that you absolutely love doing. The third pillar is sleep which is so overlooked in terms of weight loss, leading a long and healthy life, preventing illness, and increasing productivity. The fourth pillar is emotional wellness, which includes social relationships, stress, mindset and what is in the vast majority of cases the reason why people have problems with weight, emotional eating.
  • Weight loss or weight management is 95% mind management - there was a time when everyone said weight loss was 50% diet and 50% exercise. In fact, it's actually about 95% mind management, because it doesn't matter what your plan is, if you can't implement the plan, then it's useless. 
  • Habits and how they can often sabotage us - habits are things that we do without thinking, and because we tend to do them without questioning why we are doing them, we can often fail to recognise that the reason we are doing them is no longer valid. Hence, we really need to pay attention to our habits to determine if they are serving us or not.
  • The importance of making small changes - small changes performed consistently over time add up to making a big difference. People often mistakenly feel that the direction they want to go is too far away or too hard, when in reality they only need to make a small change and they will get there.
  • In order to make changes you really have to make a decision that you are going to change. Unless you make this decision, you will carry on exactly the same, and you will get the same results. It's really easy to carry on the same, however it's also really easy to make changes. 
  • Dr Orlena's book, “Building Simple Habits to a Healthy Me: Easy 4 pillar system, worksheets and habit tracker” - this is an active style of book, with questions that provoke you to make decisions that are right for you. The book explains the four pillars and contains worksheets and habit trackers. Dr Orlena’s simple system to building healthy habits utilises worksheets that will walk you through the exact steps you need to take to create a lifestyle you can stick to. Discover what’s not working for you now and how you can move forwards to build new healthy habits. Her habit tracker will keep you on the path to “healthy you”.

If you are interested in purchasing Dr Orlena's book to help you cement your habits, you can buy it here https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09ZBGDDJM

To connect with Dr Orlena visit https://www.drorlena.com

Show notes:


Why habits are helpful for long term weight loss


Dr Mary Barson: Hello, my lovely listeners. I'm Dr Mary Barson.


Dr Lucy Burns: And I'm Dr Lucy Burns. Welcome to this episode of Real Health and Weight Loss. Good morning, lovely listeners. It's Dr Lucy here again this week and I am without my beautiful friend, Dr Mary, but I have a wonderful guest for us to have a chat with this week. From across the seas, living all the way in Spain is another doctor, Dr Orlena Kerek, who goes by Dr Orlena, who is another beautiful soul in the world who loves to help women develop a healthy relationship so they can live their best lives. So welcome to the podcast, Dr Orlena.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Thank you so much for having me, Dr Lucy.


Dr Lucy Burns: I know, it's so good isn't it, when doctors get to chat. And basically we're just, you know you and I are both, I guess kindred spirits in that idea of lifestyle medicine and not just, you know handing out pills to fix problems, actually getting back to the root cause. And it's so, like I just love that branch of medicine.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yeah, I always kind of think of myself as a doctor who stops you from needing a doctor. So we're going to do all the work so that you don't need to go and see my other doctor colleagues.


Dr Lucy Burns: Exactly. So Orlena a day keeps the doctor away.


Dr Orlena Kerek: I love it.


Dr Lucy Burns: New tagline for you. Wonderful. So, there's a couple of things we've got to talk about today. But I know that one of your things, you are a habit queen, as in you teach people how to form and do healthy habits and it's one of your passions. So I'd love for you to share with our listeners today some of your techniques, and I mean you know, if you asked somebody, do you want to live a healthy life? They'd look at you and they go, “Yeah, well of course I can, I do”. But they don't. And lots of people have intentions, like good intentions, but then nothing comes of them. And that's really where you step in, isn't it?


Dr Orlena Kerek: Absolutely. Yeah, so I think that the interesting thing is, yeah, if you ask people, do they want to live a healthy life? They're a bit like, “Hmm”, but if you say to them, “Do you want to lose weight? Do you want bucket loads of energy? Do you want to live a long and healthy life and be super active”? Then suddenly they start going, “Oh, that sounds good”. And the question then becomes, well, how do you get that? And the idea is, you get that by implementing healthy living.


Dr Lucy Burns: Absolutely, and you know sometimes I'll take it a step further and I'll go, “So, do you want to live your retirement life, you know with a walking frame and a bag full of pills, and you can't go on holidays because you've got 47 specialist appointments every couple of months”? And they go, “No, as if I'd want to do that”. Right, well, you're heading down the path.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yeah, absolutely. No, totally.


Dr Lucy Burns: So, tell us about the way you work. Like what, if someone wanted to you know, live a long and healthy life, what do they do? Like, how do they find you? How do you help them?


Dr Orlena Kerek: Okay, good question. Well, first of all they have to be ready to make changes. So I think, you know one thing that is really, really important is, as you know we've talked about, lots of people aren't ready to make changes. And one thing I would say is you need to make those changes work for you, because you know, I can tell you what I do every single day, but it's not about what I do. It's about fitting it into your life. So the way I work with people is I teach four pillars. I teach healthy eating, which is so important for so many reasons. But essentially, weight loss is your issue. You want to be looking at how you eat, and also how we eat is going to help us stay healthy later on in life. Now, it's going to be easy, and it's going to be fun, and it's going to be foods that you enjoy, because you're going to choose that food. So it doesn't have to be exactly the same foods that I eat, and obviously there's a structure. In a nutshell, it's eat more fruit and vegetables, eat less packaged foods. Could go on, but I'm going to leave it at that. So pillar number two is exercise that lights you up or movement that lights you up. And I think this is the place where people get a little bit stuck and they think, “Oh, I need to lose weight. I have to do some more exercise”. No, exercise is to keep you fit and to give you energy and you have to find something that you absolutely love. And it might be that that takes a little bit of time to find the thing that you love. But for me, I love swimming in the sea. It's winter here in Spain or just coming into spring and in the winter I don't swim as much. I went a couple of days ago. Oh my goodness, there were so many jellyfish but it was so amazing to get back in the sea and I'm itching for it to be summer so that I can at 6:30 in the morning cycle to the beach and swim because it's just amazing. It literally lights me up. If I swim in the day, I'm like, “Wow, my day has been amazing”. So exercise, super important. Sleep, another really important pillar which, it's really easy to talk about, but it's so, so overlooked both in terms of weight loss, leading a long and healthy life, so many illnesses are now linked to sleep. We know more about sleep, things like Alzheimer's disease, and even productivity, you know we have this idea of, “Oh, my goodness, I'm going to stay up late. I'm going to get all my work done. I'm gonna revise my exams or whatever it is. No, you're much better off going to bed, getting a good night's sleep, getting up fresh and early. And you will get so much more done than you know, if you're dragging yourself around sleep deprived. Yet, the vast majority of the world are sleep deprived. I tell you what, there's a really interesting image that you can see on the internet, or I've seen it in a book called “Why We Sleep” by Matt Walker. And they have some spiders, and they give the spiders different drugs and then they watch the webs that they create. And the world, his poor web is just all over the place.


Dr Lucy Burns: Oh, I love that idea, that's, that is gold. I know, yes, the sleep deprived spider who yeah, will do a pretty shabby looking web.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Worse, yeah, exactly, worse than the alcoholic spider.


Dr Lucy Burns: But it's interesting, because we have this little meme that, that says that you know, humans are the only species to voluntarily restrict their sleep.


Dr Orlena Kerek: That's so true. It is so true.


Dr Lucy Burns: I know, and it's like we're meant to be the smart ones. But yet, you know we just get sucked into watching telly and doing everything else and I think our society has now just decided that sleep's optional.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yeah, yeah, and sleep's not optional. It's so odd. I call it delicious, healthy sleep and you know, I have built up habits around my sleep. So that now, I just go to bed and I lie in bed going, “Oh, my bed is so snuggly and amazing and I love it”. And I wake up in the morning going, “I feel so refreshed, it's time to get out of bed now”. And that's the way it should be. So, pillar four is emotional wellness, and I package everything under emotional wellness. So you know, you might want to talk about social relationships, stress, I put all of that in there, mindset. And specifically with the work that I do with my clients, a lot of it is looking about our relationship with food and emotional eating. And so often, well actually the vast majority of the time, people who have problems with weight, it's because of emotional eating, and that little bug always raises its head. And until you fix that, it doesn't matter. I can tell you how to eat, I can tell you to go and eat all the vegetables you want, and you'll start off really, really well. And you'll go, “Yep, really, really enthusiastic, loving these vegetables, loving this new way of life”. Suddenly, life happens, life always happens. We're really busy and that's when that emotional eating starts again. And until you fix that, you're just back to square one again, so it's really, really important thing. I think that emotional wellness piece is really the foundation and it's the piece that a lot of people aren't aware of because it's not, it is now being taught more in schools. But when we were growing up, it wasn't taught and people didn't ever talk about emotions, or how we can change our emotions. I used to think emotions fell from the sky. If I woke up happy, I woke up happy. If I woke up sad, I woke up sad. If I woke up stressed, I woke up stressed. And you know, particularly as a working doctor, there was nothing I could do about that. But there is so much you can do about it.


Dr Lucy Burns: Oh, absolutely and I think you've just highlighted so many things as you were talking then. My brain's going, “Yes, ding, ding, ding”. So I think, you know there was a time where everyone said that weight loss or weight management was 50% diet, 50% exercise. And then, you know when I realised that for me, it was actually about 80% diet, and then I'm going so it's 20% exercise, like the exercise was just the default. And then I actually realised, it's actually about 95% mind management. Because it doesn't matter what your plan is, if you can't implement the plan, then it's useless.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yeah.


Dr Lucy Burns: So, and understanding how your brain works and the little stories that it puts up to, you know sometimes sabotage yourself, or to the sort of way in which you look at a problem can actually make it harder for you to make change.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yes, definitely. And then on that note, the thing that sabotages us so so often is our habits. And that's why I love habits, because habits are things that we just do without thinking. Here's a really interesting, you know we pick things up. When my son was younger, his mother used to cook a joint of meat every Sunday. And you know, she'd have this joint of lamb, she would cut the end off and put it in the oven and my son said to her, “Well, why do you cut the end off”? And she said, “I don't know, let's go and ask your grandmother”. So they asked the grandma, “Well, why do you cut the end of the joint off”? And she said, “Well, because my oven is too small for it to fit in”. But you can see how this gets passed on. This is the way we do things. We've been taught how to do things and we just do things without thinking until somebody goes, “Well, why are we doing it this way”? And it's because there was a reason two generations ago. That reason is no longer valid, but we carry on doing things like in exactly the same way. And you know, we have habits from childhood. Why do we brush our teeth? Because our parents made us brush our teeth for years and years and years and years, until we now just do it without thinking about it. And so that's where, you know we really need to pay attention to our habits, because quite a lot of habits we do without realising them.


Dr Lucy Burns: Yes, and I love that because when you've got a really helpful, ingrained, helpful habit, it takes away all that brain chatter. You don't actually have a discussion with yourself about, “Will you brush your teeth? Won't you brush your teeth”?


Dr Orlena Kerek: I call that the habit fairy.


Dr Lucy Burns: Yeah, “How many teeth am I gonna brush tonight? Maybe I'll just start with one”. You don't do any of that, you just brush them. And in fact, sometimes I've brushed my teeth and then I can't even remember if I've done it, so I have to go back and do it again.


Dr Orlena Kerek: But it only takes two minutes, so it doesn't matter.


Dr Lucy Burns: No, it doesn't, it doesn't. And on that two-minute thing, what I love about that is the idea that it doesn't have to be a massive change to make a massive difference. So, two minutes, you know twice a day to brush your teeth. So, four minutes out of your whole life gives you good, healthy, beautiful teeth versus no minutes a day. And people often think, “Oh, I can't be bothered doing that change because it's not worth it, it's too small”.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yeah.


Dr Lucy Burns: What are your thoughts on that?


Dr Orlena Kerek: You're so right, it's the small changes that add up. And one of the things that, the way that you can tell, is this gonna make a difference or not? Think about, okay, so if I were to do this every single day for a year. Say, for example, the answer, you know I'm going to walk around the block. I'm going to spend just 10 minutes a day walking around the block. Well, that's an hour a week, that's 360 or so hours in a year. That's a lot more exercise than zero exercise. So if you had a year of no exercise, you're in one place. And if you have a year of just doing 10 minutes a day, you're in a much better place. It's one of those analogies of those big old steamboats that they used to have that would go from say Liverpool to, to New York, you know. And they would just make, if you imagine it leaving Liverpool, I hope you all know where Liverpool is.


Dr Lucy Burns: England.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Okay, it's a long distance. But you know, it makes a tiny little change right at the beginning, well, where does it end up? It ends up down in South America rather than North America, because over that distance, it's gone an entirely different direction. But it just feels like a tiny, tiny change.


Dr Lucy Burns: Yep, absolutely. And I think you're right, it makes, and it's interesting because a lot of the analogies that we use will talk about paths and change and direction because that's what we're doing here. We're walking along, you know the path of life, just to be a tiny bit wanky there. But people think sometimes that the direction they want to go is so far away or too hard that they can't possibly change, you know, they have to do a whole 180 degrees. But you don't, you just have to make a small change and it will get you there.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yeah, I think one of the things is that people are very afraid of change. And I think in order to make changes, you really do have to make a decision that you are going to change. Because what happens to people who go, “Okay, it all sounds great. I want to lose weight; I want to be healthy”. And then they don't make the decision. By default, they actually choose not to do something because they just carry on doing exactly the same thing. And they think, “Oh, I'll do it next week. I'll come back to that next week”. And they never do. So it's like, you have to make a positive decision to make change and think of it as going on an exciting journey. Like when I start work with clients, I want them to feel a little bit nervous. I want them to think, “Oh, my goodness. I'm going on this amazing, exciting journey”. Like, as if you're going to discover a new city, or you know go on a lovely journey where you think, “Yeah, it is a little bit nerve wracking and exciting, but I'm gonna have such fun. And yeah, there might be some obstacles. You know, I might have to wait in line at the passport office or something like that, but I know it's going to be worth it because when I get to the other side, I'm just going to have amazing experiences”. And that's where I think people need to be. They need to make that decision. Otherwise, you don't do anything different, you just carry on exactly the same. And you know, if you carry on the same, you get the same results. I always say, “Really easy to carry on the same, but it's also really easy to make changes”.


Dr Lucy Burns: And we know if nothing changes, nothing changes.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Exactly.


Dr Lucy Burns: I love it and I love the idea that making no decision is actually a decision.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yeah.


Dr Lucy Burns: Like deciding not to change. People go, “Oh, I don't know. It seems too hard; I'll just stay how I am”. You're often not staying how you are; you're actually heading down the path of poor health, or whatever. So trying to then think about your future self, so that your current self can make decisions with your future self in mind.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yes, exactly. And you know, I wonder if I do understand this. People kind of have this, “Hey, I'm just leading my life”, and they think, “It's not going to be me, I'm not going to get unwell”. But I just kind of feel with my doctor hat on, until you're doing everything, that is, you know what I call the basics, eating healthily, basically my four pillars, eating healthily, exercising, sleeping, and paying attention to your emotional wellness and stress levels. Until you're doing all of those things, you aren't in control. And I know we can never be 100% in control of our health, but we can influence our health hugely. So even if you have a chronic illness, even if you implement all of those healthy things, you may not 100% get rid of the chronic illness. But you're going to be leading a better quality of life because your body is stronger and has more fitness and has more capacity to do all the things, you know fight off infection and things like that. So there's never a time when doing as much as you can isn't worth it.


Dr Lucy Burns: Absolutely. And I think basically what you're describing there is that you know, you can't, you don't necessarily get to change the cards you're dealt, but you get to decide how you're going to play them.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yeah, absolutely. I love that analogy.


Dr Lucy Burns: I love analogies, they're my fave. So, one of the things that you've got to help people is you've written a book, which I love because it's also, it's not just a passive book that you, you know just read a couple of chapters. There's some, it's an active style of book, isn't it?


Dr Orlena Kerek: It is, and I tell you why I wanted an active style of book, because it's so easy to read a book. You read a book, you put it down and you think, “Yeah, that's great”, and then you do nothing in life changes. You know like, I've got a bookshelf of beautiful recipe books behind me. And you know, I buy these recipe books, and I think, “Yeah, this is great”. Well, I eat healthily, so doesn't matter. But you know, so many people buy recipe books. The idea of a recipe book is to make the recipes. And the idea of all these healthy living books is, you know, we've got the knowledge, we know what a healthy life is, we have to start living it. So the book I wrote, you know it explains, goes through the four pillars. And it's got worksheets in it, so you can think what you are doing now. And there's questions like, you know, “How many vegetables are you eating? How many portions of beans and legumes are you eating a day? Can you increase that? I think you can”. Then it goes through, “Okay, so which changes are you going to make”? They're questions that provoke you. You have to make the decision because it has to be right for you. There's no point in me saying, “Right, we're going to start at six o'clock in the morning”. Well, perhaps you're already at work at six o'clock in the morning. So I can't be that, that structured. So you have to decide. And then it's got habit trackers so that you can see where you're going. Another big thing I really see is people start, they make changes, they're like, “Yes, this is amazing. I'm feeling great, loving my new way of life”. And then a few months go past and they're still doing everything great, and then they're like, “Oh, I haven't made any changes”. And I'm like, “Yes, you have. Do you not remember what you were like a few months ago? Have you forgotten”? And the answer is yes, you have entirely forgotten what it felt like. So you get these changes really quite quickly. Your energy levels go up, you feel amazing, it becomes new normal. And then you're just like, “Oh, I'm not doing this”. And you're like, “No, no, go back and look at your traffic. Go back and look at your notes from where you were a few months ago and you will see that you have made huge progress”. And that really spurs people to keep going forwards. Because when you're there thinking, “Oh, my goodness, I haven't made changes, I can't do anything”. Well, that's your mind playing tricks on you again. But then you're just like, “Oh, I might as well just do, I might as well just give it all up”.


Dr Lucy Burns: Yeah, because I haven't achieved anything.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yeah, exactly.


Dr Lucy Burns: And I think sometimes we, how do you measure achievement? It's sometimes, you know, it's sometimes hard. It's often hard to prove a negative. So even brushing your teeth, the achievement is that you don't get fillings. But if you've never had fillings, well then it feels like you've never achieved anything. So yeah, our brain is tricky like that, so I agree. I like, I love the idea of being able to look back on what you've done and see how far you've come. And I think sometimes our brain loves to focus on what we haven't yet achieved, so maximise the loss and minimise the gains.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yeah. And sometimes I think, you know making that change as we were talking about, it's a slow progress and everybody starts from a different place. But you know, I work with some clients who are binge eaters and that can be a hard problem to solve. It isn't something that you turn off immediately. So say for example, you're binge eating 30 days every single month, you know every single day. And you get that down to one day out of seven. Oh my goodness, that is an amazing achievement! Yet when you're standing there at one day out of seven, you're still beating yourself up because you're saying, “Oh my goodness, I'm still doing it one day out of seven”. And it's like, “But that's amazing, go and look”. And when you mark it and you see that you've got all these reds, you know these spots every single day, and now you've got a spot once a week, you can then see the progress that you're making.


Dr Lucy Burns: Ah, absolutely, I love that. Because again, that's our thing, I think for a lot of people that have you know, they get stuck in perfection of all or nothing. They're either not bingeing ever, or they're bingeing every day. They see success as never bingeing again, rather than, “How about the six days that I didn't, and we can work on the seventh”. You know, every single time it happens, then it's an opportunity to work out, “What was my brain doing? What was I thinking? What can, how can I improve”? Not, “Oh, my God, I'm such a loser”.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yeah, exactly. And then you're gonna get down to one, once a month, and that's amazing. That's like, a 30th of what you were doing, yet human nature is you're still gonna beat yourself up about that one.


Dr Lucy Burns: Yeah, because your brain goes, “I still haven't, I still haven't conquered it”. Oh, I know, I know. We are, yeah, we can certainly be our own worst enemies and I think that can be, that's a lot of what keeps people stuck. So what I love is that your book helps people take what's in their brain out of their brain and putting it on paper so they can have an objective look at it.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yes.


Dr Lucy Burns: I think for so many of us, we do, we get stuck in a cycle of, you know negative self-talk and our default is always too high. We criticise and judge ourselves pretty harshly. And not often be able to, that saying of you know, you're in, “You can't see the wood for the trees”. So you are, you're stuck down in the forest in amongst all the mushrooms, you can't see anything. But when you take it out of your head and pop it on paper, when you're answering questions that somebody has thoughtfully asked, then you actually get to come out of the mushrooms and take a step back and go, “Yeah, okay, I can see what's happening here”.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And it's really interesting, you know when I talk to people, you know when you have your first chats with them, and you're getting to know someone and you say something like, “So what do you do in the evening”? And I remember this from one of my clients, she says, “You know you asked me, what do I do in the evening? And I basically realised I sat on my mobile phone, and that wasn't particularly enjoyable, and I wasn't really taking care of myself, yet I didn't really know it”. So those questions when you start asking them to yourself and thinking, “Okay, so what is possible? How do I want my life? I want lots of energy. I don't want to have that brain fog; I don't want to feel sluggish. I want to stop feeling guilty about the way I'm leading my life”. And actually, the solution to all of those things actually is, it can disappear quite quickly once you start doing the work of asking yourself the questions and looking at them and start implementing. It just disappears.


Dr Lucy Burns: I love that, I love that. So Orlena, if someone wanted to buy your book, where do they get it from?


Dr Orlena Kerek: Oh, thank you for asking. It is available on Amazon. So I have self-published it, which means it's only on Amazon. You can buy it on my website, but it's probably just easy to buy it on Amazon. And it is available in e-book, but I really recommend getting the paperback. The reason I put it on the e-book is because it means that you can download it onto your mobile phone. So you can read a little bit of it and go, “Oh, yeah, I like this”, or “No, I don't like this”. It gives you that little taster. But you know, if you're going to purchase one of them, I really recommend the paperback because it's got the habit trackers in it. It's got habit trackers, it's got a gratitude, you know writing, that you can do every single day. Gratitude is another amazing habit to have, and you know, it's part of that mindset work. But really, it's about writing it on paper. And they're the same price, so go for the paper option.


Dr Lucy Burns: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that it's interesting, I mean we have so much, you know so many tools available at our fingertips with phones, but the problem is that we don't use them. And I think part of it is because humans still like to write and we often, seeing it written and taking that pen and spending some time, it's so different isn't it, to just having a quick glance at your phone? And I think for me the problem with the phone, if I had it on my phone, is I'd be then tempted to go “Oh, I'll just see what's happening on Facebook. Oh, I'll just have a quick look at, you know whatever else is going on”, and then suddenly I'm off somewhere else watching bloody pandas eat bamboo or something.


Dr Orlena Kerek: I know. Facebook have now started adding reels in, haven't they? And I find myself looking at these little videos going, “What am I looking for here? What's the amazing thing”? And some of them are amazing, and some of them are like, “What am I supposed to be watching? It's a person crossing the road”.


Dr Lucy Burns: I know, I know, and it's evil in its simplicity. The design is to suck you in and keep you, you know getting your little dopamine hits, but it's just a time sink and we can live so much fuller and more productive lives if we can develop some habits and some discipline around the use of digital devices.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Absolutely. Yeah, I find that you know seeing digital devices, it kind of makes my brain ache a little bit.


Dr Lucy Burns: Mmm, yeah, they do. And our brain tells us, “Oh, I'm just relaxing, I'm just spending some time relaxing”. And so, as you know you're relaxing, you're flicking through either scrolling through socials, or you're playing some game of Candy Crush or whatever and it's, it's actually not relaxing. It's designed to be stimulating and addictive. And so when your brain says, “I'm just relaxing”, I often say, just counter that little thought with, “Actually, I'm stimulating”. If you want to stimulate, that's fine, but don't trick yourself by believing you're relaxing.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Totally, I totally agree.


Dr Lucy Burns: Wonderful. All right darling, well this has been delightful and as you know, at Real Life Medicine we love sharing with other people. We love collaborating, we love, you know we want people to have a look at other people's websites, have a look around, because you know there's horses for courses and everybody has a slightly different way of delivering information. Maybe exactly the same information, but your brain may resonate with a different person and so I would honestly encourage people to go have a look at Dr Orlena's book. We will link it in the show notes at the end of the podcast so you will be able to just click on the link and check it out.


Dr Orlena Kerek: Thank you so much, Lucy.


Dr Lucy Burns: No problem, thank you so much for being our guest. And lovelies I will be back next week and I've got no idea what I'm talking about. But that's fine because you know, as you know I love winging it and we will come up with some enthralling topic for next week. Have a wonderful, wonderful week. Bye for now. So my lovely listeners, that ends this episode of Real Health and Weight Loss. I'm Dr Lucy Burns.


Dr Mary Barson: And I'm Dr Mary Barson. We're from Real Life Medicine. To contact us please visit https://www.rlmedicine.com


Dr Lucy Burns: And until next time, thanks for listening. The information shared on the real health and weight loss podcast, including show notes and links provides general information only. It is not a substitute, nor is it intended to provide individualised medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor can it be construed as such. Please consult your doctor for any medical concerns.

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