Episode 167:

Show Notes 


In this episode, Dr. Lucy Burns welcomes a special guest, Helen Marshall from Primal Alternative. Helen shares her journey from a low-fat diet to discovering the benefits of low carb and how it transformed her health. She discusses the challenges and triumphs she faced in her personal health journey and how it led her to create Primal Alternative, a business that offers grain-free, low-carb alternatives to traditional baked goods. The conversation highlights the importance of incremental changes in one's diet and lifestyle and how finding healthier alternatives can make a significant difference. Helen also shares her experience as a health coach and the inspiration behind helping other women start their Primal Alternative businesses.

Dive deep into the misconceptions surrounding diet culture and the diet industry's relentless grip on our choices. Gain insights into the transformative power of removing grains and sugar from your diet and hear how incremental changes can lead to monumental shifts in your health and well-being.

Dr. Lucy's unique analogy of the brain as a waiter will change the way you think about making dietary choices forever. Are you ready to take the reins and be in control of your health like never before?

Prepare to be inspired, motivated, and ready to embrace a healthier, happier you. Tune in and embark on your own transformative journey alongside Helen Marshall and our expert host, Dr Lucy. Your best self is just a listen away!

Episode 167, show notes and transcript:

To connect with Helen

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Episode 167: 



Dr Mary Barson: (0:11) Hello, my lovely listeners. I'm Dr Mary Barson.

Dr Lucy Burns: (0:15) And I'm Dr Lucy Burns. Welcome to this episode of

Both: (0:20) Real Health and Weight Loss!

Dr Mary Barson: (0:23) Good morning, lovely listeners. It's Dr Lucy here today, and I am without the gorgeous Dr Mary, but I have an “awesome”, and I'm using air quotes for replacement because it is not a replacement but an awesome guest for us to have a fabulous conversation with, and I think that you're going to love –  a.) her story and b.) all the things that she does. So, I am thrilled to welcome to the podcast Helen Marshall from Primal Alternative. Helen, welcome!

Helen Marshall  (0:53)  Hey, Dr Lucy, thank you for having me on the show. It's a real honour to be here! 

Dr Lucy Burns  (0:57)  Oh, you're welcome, gorgeous girl. And it is great to, I mean, you know, I'm always up for chinwag. So it's good to chat with another low carbatarian. And it's interesting because we, like lots of people in the low carb world, and in podcast land, we've never actually met in true life. And we met really just on the social network. That is the low-carb world.

Helen Marshall (1:22)  We did. I think we have a mutual friend of Tracy McBeath. And I was involved in her low-carb, online low carb. What was it called, Low Carb Roadshow? No, that was your low carb roadshow. But she had a couple of events. She did it every year. And she got amazing speakers. I know you're a speaker there.

Dr Lucy Burns  (1:40)  Ah she does the Low Carb Long Weekend. Yeah, Tracy runs the Low Carb Lifestyle Hub. Yes, and has the  Low Carb Long Weekend. Correct.

Helen Marshall (1:51)  Yeah, she's amazing. Love Tracy. So yeah, I think and that's how we kind of crossed paths and connected and then we're chatting all the time. You've been on my podcast, here I am today. It's amazing. I love it!

Dr Lucy Burns  (2:02)  Yes, absolutely. And I always love to ask anybody who comes on to the show, how did you come across low carb or tell us your journey into this world?

Helen Marshall (2:14)  Yeah, absolutely. Well, pretty much like everybody else, I think we all started off the opposite of low carb, which was low fat. And that is the way that I ate for 25 years. I remember an advert when I was at school, you know, one of those posters that was on some of the walls in the classrooms. And it was a frying pan with some solidified lard in it. And some of it written “fat” in it, you know, with a finger, and it was like, “Oh, you're going to clog your arteries, you're going to die, it's going to be horrendous, don't eat fat.” So I kind of went on a 25-year rampage into low fat, which means high carbohydrate, it means not getting any nutrients from any of the vegetables that you eat, because you can't absorb the vitamins without the fat, and a kind of dull and bland way to live really. But you know, I really am motivated to be healthy, and I always have been. I've worked in the health and wellness world since I started teaching aerobics at the age of 14, and I did my degree in this industry and am still working to this day. And so that's what I thought was needed to be healthy. And then when I look back, I can see a couple of you know, hindsight is a wonderful thing, right? And when I look back, I can see some indicators that perhaps things weren't all that go in that grit under the bonnet, but kept on going. I had my two babies, and I think it's almost when you've had the babies, and you've really put your system under that pressure to create another human, and then the looking after, the nurturing, the sleepless nights, then your body kind of goes, “Actually you know what, I can't take any more.” So, for me, my kind of health crisis of collapsing into a heap looked like chronic nausea. So I just felt sick all the time. It was like morning sickness with a hangover. And I went to the doctor, and the doctor said, “Look, it sounds like you might have a little bit of irritable bowel syndrome. Here are some anti-nausea tablets.” You might want to go and see a psychologist, and you might be depressed, but I was really depressed because I was feeling so crappy, just had no energy. I felt so rubbish. I had no energy. I couldn't sleep, even though I was exhausted. I would lie in bed on a night and just be singing theme tunes of kids. You know, TV shows like some kind of torture. I couldn't poo. So I was completely constipated. Yes, and my entire body was just aches and pains from head to toe. I had to get up in the middle of the night to pop some Nurofen to get back to sleep because the pain was unbearable. And obviously, because of all of these symptoms, I was feeling anxious. I was feeling overwhelmed. I just thought my kind of default mood was like, “Well, what's the point like this?” Like, I kind of really was hoping that I was dying of some horrible disease because I couldn't see any way out of this. And then, one night, I was having a bit of a dark night of the soul. And I was chatting to my husband. And at that point, we were a one-income family, and we didn't have a lot of cash. And I said, “Look, I think I need to go and see a naturopath to find out what's wrong with me.” We can't really afford it. Anyway, she's only going to tell me to go gluten-free like this. This kind of thing just dropped in. And I was like, oh, okay. So, I started to Google gluten-free because I didn't know what was gluten-free and what wasn't. And you were only one click away from grain-free paleo from low carb lifestyle. So I thought, you know, I'm a type A personality. So I was like, hey, look In for a penny in for a pound. If I'm going to ditch the gluten, I'm going to ditch the sugar. I'm going to ditch the grains. I'm going to ditch the seed oils. And we'll see how we go. And that's how I got into it. 

Dr Lucy Burns  (6:32)  Yes. Amazing, amazing. And given how you are, I'm imagining that you felt a whole lot better.

Helen Marshall (6:38)  Yeah, seriously, it was a case of day and night. It didn't happen instantly. Perhaps after about a week, I felt as if a veil had been lifted. And you know, this kind of like I've heard you and Dr Mary talk about these little glimmers that you get where you're like, “Oh, I think I feel alright. I think I can kind of see a purpose here.” And just that kind of like inner knowing that I'm going to be alright. And then you know that the symptoms would come back, if I don't do it or I was a little bit tired or something like that. So it took about six weeks to really kind of go from feeling like crap, to feeling energised, to go into the gym and being able to lift weights over my head without seeing stars and feeling like I was gonna pass out from low blood sugar, to sleeping well, to go into the toilet, you know, all of these sorts of basic functions that if they're not optimal, or they're not, you're not sleeping, you're not pulling, like it's not a good place to be.

Dr Lucy Burns  (7:47)  No. And you know, what I just love about what you said that it took a while, like a number of weeks – six, eight, sometimes longer weeks. And I think sometimes we make a change, and we expect everything to be fixed straight away. And we expect that we should be able to do everything straight away. So a lot of the time, people will go, “Oh, Lucy, I'm too tired, I can't possibly go to the gym, I can't lift weights, I can't cook from scratch, I've just got no energy for any of that. That all sounds way too hard.” But what you've described is this idea that you don't have to do it all at once, that you just start, and then you build on it. And I love that.

Helen Marshall (8:25)  Yeah, like, you know, that's not our fault. We were sold quick fixes that it's like you're going on holiday in two weeks, take the shake for the next fortnight and look amazing on the beach. Everything is a quick fix – a quick pill, and nobody wants to do the hard yards. That's, that's the hard work. And when you do those hard yards, it's not just a case of changing your diet, quitting grains, and feeling better. It's like you have to face all of these other feelings in there, like, well, “I like bread, and I want to have bread, and I can't have bread anymore. And you know, you've got this whole kind of like, little nurturing of this inner child as well that you've got to contend with. It's not a straightforward process. And I think that we often are looking for something quick. We think that it's we've got to be 100% perfect. When actually, we don't, and I love you have this message as well. Like this isn't a diet as in, you know, a verb of doing a diet, it's a lifestyle and that we're always looking for incremental upgrades. We don't have to be perfect, right out of the pit. As soon as we hit the track, it's about evolving. When you learn better, you do better, and so forth.

Dr Lucy Burns  (9:36)  Yeah, and we see this all the time because so as an example, I drink black coffee. But I know I didn't start out drinking black coffee. I in fact loved lattes. I was a latte lady, and Lucy loves lattes. And I changed from milk to cream when I first sort of transitioned. But I did that for probably six months before I then was ready to go. Okay, well, let's just see what life looks like with black coffee. But if you'd said to me at the start, “Ah, by the way, you need to drink black coffee.” I would have told you to go to hell and a handbag because I was just not interested in that. And we can certainly do small steps. You don't have to do it all, and you don't have to do it all at once. You know what, some people don't ever want to go onto black coffee, and that doesn't matter either. You can just do what works for you. But it doesn't have to all happen within a day or a week.

Helen Marshall (10:38)  So true. And coffee is such a great example because a lot of people you know, what is it that you like about the coffee? Is it the coffee the actual taste or the coffee which is quite bitter? Or is it the sugar bomb that you love from the lactose in the milk? You know, I used to have my like, pre low carb lifestyle coffee was a skinny, what was it, a skinny mocha?  When I was like that, was it a skinny mocha? That was that was it? No sugar, because you know, I was trying to be healthy. I know sugar wasn't that good either. So I'd have a skinny mocha like oh my goodness, like a complete sugar bomb. And yes, of course, like you're missing it and whether you're having your coffee with honey and cream. What is it you're missing? Is it the coffee? Or is it the actual decadence of the yummy stuff within it? So it's interesting. One sugar hit. Yeah, yeah. 100%.

Dr Lucy Burns  (11:33)  And, also, I think when people are back living their high carb lifestyle, is their body runs, it fuels on glucose, they need glucose, they actually run out of energy. So coffee, particularly with lactose, aka glucose, gives you that energy. So you're constantly fueling throughout the day on coffee, but it's not a great way to be living. It's like, you know, stopping at a petrol station every 10 kg, that in itself is a pain in the ass.

Helen Marshall (12:06)  And then there's also something funny about coffee as in like, It's not food, you know? So we're like, “Oh, well, I'm hungry, but a milky coffee will fill me up.” But when we look at what's actually in it in terms of calories and carbs, and it's got a lot of those in there but is void of nutrients. So probably, if you're hungry, you might as well be better off just having something to eat than filling up on a coffee, which we think in our mind is still kind of sticking to the diet.

Dr Lucy Burns  (12:33)  Yeah. Absolutely. Back to you and your story. You ditched the grains and started feeling better. When you started to feel better, you could implement some other changes into your life again at the back of our mind, we always know there's a big list of the things we should be doing. But if we've got no energy to do them, that just feels like another chore, another task, another thing we're failing at. So you were then able to implement some of those things. And it was a bit easier than previously. I'm imagining.

Helen Marshall (13:07)  Yeah, look, I was completely overwhelmed just by the laundry, what I was going to feed the family for dinner that night like that was enough. That was as much as I could cope with. And it was a case of getting up, dealing with the family, putting the laundry on, and figuring out what to do for dinner, because you know, making dinner when you're feeling queasy all the time and absolutely exhausted and anxious. And all these things, it's horrible. And then, you know, in the afternoon, I would go and sleep for three hours of the afternoon because I was completely burnt out. But once I started to take the grains, sugar, and carbs out of my diet, I really did start to heal. And you know, my sleep improved, my bowel movements actually occurred. And as I say, I had those glimmers of feeling like there was hope. And before you knew it, I was feeling so much better. And one of my friends actually said to me, “Jesus, she's like you found God”, because I was really like evangelical about this, this way of living, and I wanted to kind of get out and help other people. And so I started to write this blog, which was the first kind of channel. Because I think when you've experienced healing yourself, like when you are healing, it's a very selfish time, and that has to be you have to look after yourself first. You know that put your oxygen mask on before you put it on others, that kind of analogy. But when you feel better, I call it like a period of self-transcendence where you feel compelled to reach out and help other people. So with the blog, people were coming up to me in the street and putting their hand on the arm, you know, in the local shop and saying, “What did you do? What did you do because I've been on an anti-nausea tablet for five years, and I feel terrible as well. So what did you do to change it? So I started health coaching. I qualified as a health coach, and just to help other people who are feeling sick and tired of being sick and tired to feel better, as well. But here's the thing, they all got brilliant results. Doing this during the week was like, “I feel amazing. This is great.” I call it primal living, grain-free paleo, a very similar way of life. And then come around probably about Friday afternoon, it would be like, “Well, I can't be bothered cooking from scratch tonight. Ah, you know, I've been chopping all my veggies and sucking my nuts and eating my fermented veggies and do my bone broth and all of that. And I want a break. So I'm just gonna go and get a pizza.” And now I've kind of fallen off the wagon. So I might as well drink the bottle of wine. And then the next thing they know, they're rummaging through the freezer for about half an empty carton of ice cream. And they're thinking, Oh, well, I might as well eat this. You know, I've fallen off the wagon for throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And that's when I really started to realise that there was this real willpower at play. We had to just get by through willpower, which is kind of like how the diet industry works right on willpower. But we all know now that willpower is finite. It's like it runs out, you can only flex your willpower probably till about Wednesday afternoon, and then it starts to go, “Yeah, can't really do this anymore.” But we think that there's something wrong with us when willpower runs out. We think that we're lazy. We think that we're greedy. We all have these shameful things that we put on ourselves when, really, it's just human nature that you cannot run your whole life through willpower. So my approach was, “Okay, well, what are you missing? And how can we find a primal alternative to that, that you're missing, so that you don't feel like you're missing out and your little human brain is quite happy to carry on because nobody's going to deprive you.” And that's really where I got the kind of staying power, not just for my health coaching clients but also for our family. My husband said, "Okay, we'll do this low carb thing, but we're not doing it without cookies. So, I had to figure out something to keep his Cookie Monster happy.

Dr Lucy Burns  (17:43)  Absolutely. I think the tricky bit for humans is that we will always move away from pain and lean into pleasure, that's normal. And so when we're feeling rubbish, it's easier to move away because you go, “I feel so terrible, I'll do anything, then you start to feel better. And it's almost like your brains have forgotten how terrible you feel. And so all of a sudden, it discounts that because it's no longer needing to move away from the pain. It's already moved. And then it's going right, well, what pleasure can I find? And so, as you said, it comes back to pizzas, Tim Tams, or whatever it is people's various, you know, penchant for pleasure.

Helen Marshall (18:27)  Yeah, that's 100% right! And if they make the low, isn't it that the primal part of the brain that is moving as always away from pain and towards pleasure, and so trying to have that willpower to override that is like, it's just never gonna happen. You're just gonna end up in hate. You're gonna fall off the wagon. And it can sometimes be just so empowering. Like, you're just a big dose of self-love to realise that.

Dr Lucy Burns  (18:52)  Yeah, absolutely. And look, I think, you know, we can change what we do, we don't always have to succumb if we like to, to our brains options. And I often describe it as your brain is a bit like a waiter. It will often give you options, and all of those options are designed to either keep you safe or make you feel better. So, move away from pain into pleasure. You can decide because we are the boss of us, whether you are going to listen to that waiter. But we do know that there are things that make the waiter louder. So if you're tired, if you're angry, if you're lonely, if you're hungry, all of those make the waiter very loud. And that can sometimes be the reason why we listen to it sometimes and not other times. Because I know for a lot of people they go, “Ah, sometimes I can resist and other times I can't, and I don't know what's wrong with me and like yeah, there's it's because there's some other stuff going on.”

Helen Marshall (19:50)  Yeah, it's so true. I love that analogy.

Dr Lucy Burns  (19:53)  Yeah. I love that analogy, as you know, it helps me explain complex things and make it easy. But what I love so Helen, you have gone, and as we've talked about you, like I'm the same. I became a low carb, zealot, a low carb aficionado, and I just wanted other people to feel as good as I did. And you then created a business seeing that there was a need for low carb products or alternative grain-free alternative products so that people can live this life easily. Tell us a little bit about that.

Helen Marshall (20:29)  Yeah, well, it's funny how things happen because I never sort of sat down and brainstormed how I wanted to create a food brand that was gonna to take over the world. But um, I think when you're on a healing journey, and you clean up your diet, you suddenly alleviate some of the horrible symptoms. You got a picture of where I was at, just kind of struggling through surviving in a very unhappy, depressed, anxious way to then going on. If you said to me back then, “Oh, you know, don't worry, keep going, and in a few years time, you'll run a business. You'll be helping lots of women around the country have their own businesses. I would have said, yeah, right, because it just seems so impossible to go from there to here. But it is possible, and that is just a real message of hope for anyone who's at that horrible point. It's a horrible point, but it's also a beautiful point of inner readiness. We all have to get to that absolutely. Black pit hole for us to then go, “Okay, I need to make some changes.” So there's always a silver lining and a lesson along the way. But yes, so anyway, I was health coaching my clients, and they felt so much better with being able to just have this bread, instead of that bread, have this cookie, instead of the Tim Tam, have this pizza, instead of going to Domino's, and always have things on hand so that whenever that temptation strikes, when the waiter starts offering you things, you can say, hey, I'll take that pizza, but I'll go for the low carb version that's made from nuts and seeds, and free range eggs so there's a better alternative to go for. So I started doing that. And it wasn't long before that part of the business really took off. And I didn't have time to coach people anymore because I was doing farmers' markets and I was delivering to health food shops. And I was, you know, getting calls from the local cafes to take 60 pizzas versus a week to put on their menu. And it was really, really exciting. I was just on this great journey of clarity of mind and energy, feeling that I had a purpose, like I had found something that could make a difference in the world, and it was lighting me up and fulfilling my desire to contribute. And it was earning me money like I was paying the mortgage. I mean, I told you before, we were a one-income family. I had ditched my corporate job and my six-figure salary to be a mom and move to the country and really have that nurturing family life, which I don't regret for one minute. But I never thought that I would be able to have a kind of career myself from 100 acres of wilderness in the bush with a sketchy internet signal, as you know, Lucy, and then something online that could make such a difference. And it was really just one day when I was just sat there kind of minding my own business, this kind of inspiration tapped me on the shoulder and said, “Hey, why don't you share this back in business that you've created with other women who are into health and they want to help other people, but they might not want to go back to uni or and become a nutritionist or a doctor or naturopath and they just wanted to maybe have a little side hustle.” Like they're already spending so much time in the kitchen, they could make a little bit extra and sell it to local families. So I thought, “Oh my goodness, really like where would I even start to create something like that?” But I just trusted that if there was going to be this inspiration to have this idea. And I feel really humble about it. I feel like if I didn't do it, this little idea would have tapped someone else on the shoulder, and this would have still happened, and it's not just I decided, okay, I'll put a challenge out, I'll give it a crack. And I just trusted that the next steps would unfold even though I had zero clue about how to set up a licence, how to create a business model and how to get my message out there because, you know, I'm just a random woman without any qualifications. Who's gonna listen to me in this very, very noisy world? So all of those kinds of like, you know, fears and inner naysayers that I had to work through to do it. And that was seven years ago. It's actually seven years ago to the month that I sold my first primalistal licence, is what I call it. So Primal Alternative, so the producers are called primalistas, which is kind of fun. And the business model is the primalistas license. And yes, seven years ago to the day, and now like nearly 300 primalistas later, mostly in Australia, but also through organic reach, from appearing on podcasts like this in New Zealand, the United States and the United Kingdom. And it just feels like you're doing your life's work, like you're living on purpose, and it's challenging, and it's rewarding of all the things, and it's just incredible. None of it would have been able to take place without that horrible health crisis, without venturing into this new world of food, finding the truth about food, and changing my life. It's been incredible.

Dr Lucy Burns  (26:11)  I love it. It's like a phoenix rising out of the ashes.

Helen Marshall (26:14)  Absolutely. Yes.

Dr Lucy Burns  (26:17)  So what I love then is that you've gone and you've done like all the hard work, you've gone radio. So, to set up a business from scratch, I don't know anything about it. I've got to get, you know, food licenses, food handling certificates, and brand names and marketing and work out how to go and talk to a cafe and all that sort of stuff. And so you've done all of that. And then basically, like made a recipe. If so, how can other people do it?

Helen Marshall (26:46)  Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Read a recipe for success. Yes.

Dr Lucy Burns  (26:51)  Yeah, it's a business recipe, which works perfectly because you know, you're obviously a recipe creator, having created these products in the first place. So refined those, then gone, “Right, well, now I can actually make a business out of this. And I'm making some money. So now write the recipe on how to do this. And here's a bunch of recipes and all the instructions. So follow the method.”

Helen Marshall (27:15)  Yeah, exactly. Back your way to success. I love a food plan, a love of food.

Dr Lucy Burns  (27:23)   Indeed, it makes sense. So if people are looking for Primal Alternative products, or even to become a primalistas, what do you do? Do you just google Primal Alternative? Like if I was sort of thinking right now, I want some Primal Alternative pizza bases, how would I find them?

Helen Marshall (27:39)  Yeah, you can just google Primal Alternative. Absolutely. And go to the product page. So it's just primalalternative.com/products. And then you can see what we've got. I mean, I think we got like 38 different products. We got plant-based products, we've got low carb products. Actually, interestingly enough, the low carb products came after I started the brand. So I mean, everything is low carb compared to conventional wheat bread, like it's so much more low carb than that. But it was about a few years in, like when paleo was the thing. And then people started picking up my products at markets and going too many carbs. And I was like, “Damn these low carb people, and complaining about my level, grasp my slice of bread.” So you know, I just went back to the drawing board, and I was like, “Okay, well, what would happen in the kitchen, if we took out the tapioca starch, and we popped in some seeds instead of that because they are nutrient-dense, they're very low carb, and voila, the next product was made with the low carb seed love. And so very streamlined recipes, just a few tweaks can make a completely different product with a completely different appeal and completely different macronutrient panel. So we've got everything on there. And then I've gone through various protocols. I don't want any of your listeners to think “Oh, six weeks and I was healed.” You know, I think that healing is a process. You hit different stages of your life like I'm nearly 50 and perimenopausal. So there's been a lot of like, liver work to do lately, which has been a great journey. And so there's always something that you kind of write, “Okay, I'm going through an egg-free phase, or I'm going through a dairy-free phase, or I'm doing a gap protocol where I have no starch at all. So there's something in there for every kind of reset, every phase that you're in, every craving that you have, and you might be buying the low carb seed love, but your kids might not really like that. We do have alternatives that are still super nourishing that the kids are going to like. My big advice is don't even tell people it's grain-free, you know, just put something delicious in front of them and they'll love it and enjoy it. So yeah, check out the products, and if you want to become a primalistas the best place to head to is primalalternative.com/licence. And that's got everything on there. I like to just put heart on my sleeve, here it is, this is how much it costs to make the bread. This is what she says. It's like this is where we've got producers. This is how it works. This is who I am. Everything on there, so you can get a real flavour for what it is and how it works.

Dr Lucy Burns  (30:26)  Oh, flavour another little pan. Seriously, there's all your coffee. It's all about flavour recipes. Protocol, all that stuff. I love it. I love it. Helen, you know what? I just totally love it. I love that you have done like your own. I always call it your own experiment, and I firmly believe that there is no one diet for all humankind. Like, I think anyone that says that, he's just talking rubbish. What it is is about finding the way of eating that works best for you and that you can do most of the time, if not all of the time, but there certainly most. No point having the perfect protocol that you can only stick to for two days. And there is no point in having a protocol that then makes you feel isolated and you know like you're on your own island away from the world or something that you can only do when life is perfect, when there's no stress or anything like that none of that is helpful. So I love that you have done your own experiment and that you now provide products that help people who are running their own experiments and that you have created a business model for other women to be able to again work from home in a situation that suits their lifestyle and their families perfect.

Helen Marshall (31:51)  Yeah, thank you yeah, it sounds amazing when you said that.

Dr Lucy Burns  (31:57)  Oh well you know I love reflecting back. So gorgeous, you are obviously also on socials on Instagram as Primal Alternative. Is that Primal?

Helen Marshall (32:08)  Yes. Just Primal Alternative. Easy peasy.

Dr Lucy Burns  (32:12)  Easy peasy. I love it. Gorgeous listeners. If you are looking, go check out Helen's page at Primal Alternative. If you're looking for any low carb, real food products, you can find them on her website and a list of your local producers because, again, at Real Life Medicine, we love supporting female-led businesses particularly if they're local, great for the environment. It's just great for health. Great for everything. Gorgeous Helen, thank you so much for being on the podcast. It has been a delight, as always, and I am quite sure our listeners will go over and check you out. 

Helen Marshall (32:45)  Awesome! Thank you so much, Lucy.

Dr Lucy Burns  (32:47)  You're welcome. Gorgeous listeners. Have a beautiful, beautiful week. Stay happy, stay healthy, and get outside if you can. It's good for you, good for your soul, and we will catch you next time. Bye for now.

Dr Lucy Burns: (33:04)  So, my lovely listeners, that ends this episode of real health and weight loss. I'm Dr Lucy Burns,

Dr Mary Burns  (33:12)  and I'm Dr Mary Barson. We’re from Real Life Medicine. To contact us, please visit rlmedicine.com

Dr Lucy Burns  (33:24)  And until next time…

Both: (33:25) Thanks for listening!

Dr Lucy Burns: (33:27) The information shared on the real health and weight loss podcast, including show notes and links provides general information only. It is not a substitute, nor is it intended to provide individualized medical advice, diagnosis or treatment, nor can it be construed as such. Please consult your doctor for any medical concerns.

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